Errors in Birth Time Versus Errors in Birth Place
December
Master’s Musings, Late May 2025
Errors in Birth Time Versus Errors in Birth Place
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Master’s Musings

On March 19, as we were preparing for one of our frequent Question-and-Answer Zoom sessions, Penelope contacted me with a minor concern about our monthly “chart winner.” As usual, many people had submitted their charts, hoping to be the one whom we would put in the spotlight for a half hour or so at the end of the Q&A time. Penelope had done the usual drill, using a random method to pick the winner. When she had chosen, she quickly emailed me with her problem. “I am confirming the Ascendant degree with the chart winner. She was born in Brooklyn at a very specific time (3:26am), but she was not specific about exactly which Brooklyn location.”
Penelope was right. Brooklyn is big! It stretches about fifteen miles from Greenpoint in the north to Brighton Beach in the south. Was she right to worry about coming up with the wrong chart unless we knew precisely where in Brooklyn this woman was born? We all know that the place of someone’s birth is a critical element in our “holy trinity” of birth date, birth time, and birth location. How big an error in her Ascendant and house cusps might we introduce if we had her being born in Greenpoint when she was actually born in Brighton Beach?
The answer was easy to discover with a few minutes’ work. I can’t remember the details of the chart, so I just did some fresh calculations here at my desk as I wrote this little essay. I happen to be writing on April 25. Arbitrarily, I set up a chart for noon today in Brooklyn – but I altered the latitude that my Winstar program gave for “Brooklyn” to reflect a birth way up in the north end of the borough, in Greenpoint. There, I got an Ascendent at 23 degrees Cancer 58 minutes. I then did the same thing for the south end of Brooklyn, at Brighton Beach. There the Ascendant is 23 degrees Cancer 51 minutes.
The two Ascendants are indeed different, but only by seven minutes of arc. That’s too small a change to make any practical difference at all. No worry, in other words. It didn’t matter where in Brooklyn our chart winner was born. Saying “Brooklyn” was good enough.
That was a north/south change. What about east/west? That would naturally have more impact on the Ascendant. Here let’s look at the worst case scenario: a true megalopolis. Shanghai, China, stretches about seventy-five miles in an east/west direction. I applied the same method I used with Brooklyn, altering the atlas listing of Shanghai’s latitude and longitude to reflect two widely-spaced places of birth that were both technically within the city limits. In the east along the coast, that calculation shows an Ascendant of 1 degree Leo 49 minutes. In the west, seventy-five miles away, the Ascendant backs off to 0 degrees Leo 47’. It’s shifted over one degree, in other words. And there, even though the change is not huge, we might potentially run into some trouble.
The takeaway is that if you are dealing with a client who was born in one of the world’s truly gigantic cities – Mexico City, Mumbai, and so forth – it might be worth asking them for some clarification about exactly where in the city they were born.
By the way, when I simply accept the atlas’s figures for the position of Shanghai, they point to the central district of the city. I am not sure exactly what the protocol is for choosing the latitudes and longitudes in the various astrology atlases, but I suspect that approach is typical. And sensible. The point is that if we had simply accepted that given “downtown” latitude and longitude and used it in setting up a chart for someone “born in Shanghai,” that one degree shift from east to west would be considerably mitigated, and probably drop down to no more than about a half-degree of error. And that’s well within the margins of acceptability for our work.
The bottom line is that when Penelope wondered about where in Brooklyn our chart winner was born, she really did not need to worry at all. “I was born in Brooklyn” is enough for us to set up a chart in which we can have confidence.
THE REAL ELEPHANT IN THE LIVING ROOM . . .
. . . is not the place of birth, but rather the time of birth. Even small errors in the time, unlike discrepancies in latitude and longitude, can quickly make a big difference.
Our chart winner had what appears to be a carefully timed birth of 3:26 AM. But what exactly do we mean by “birth?” Some of you women who are reading my words are mothers – and Happy Mothers’ Day, by the way! But you know very well that it wasn’t as if one day you were walking along minding your own business when suddenly, pop, there’s your baby.
Some births are fast, some are slow, but none are “instant,” where there would be an easily and universally identified minute of birth. Is the moment of birth the emergence of the child’s head, the full emergence, the first breath, the cutting of the umbilical cord? I’ve heard all of them and I really don’t know which theory is correct.
Our chart winner was born at 3:26 AM? Hmmm . . .
And of course there’s human error, clocks running fast or slow, especially in the pre-digital days.The time of birth is ever the Achilles’ Heel of astrological practice. My birth certificate states that I was born (whatever that means) at 3:30 AM. Through my own experience of the timing of events in my life, I’ve rectified that back to 3:22. And that change has thrown my Ascendant off by nearly three degrees, enough to make a significant difference in my chart.
I suspect errors of that order are common and widespread.
The underlying point for our purposes here is that any slight error in one’s house cusps that is introduced by ambivalence about where in a given town or city a person was born is eclipsed by the almost-inevitable uncertainties that are built into a birth time, even a seemingly accurate one.
So how can we live with these wild cards? Carefully, is the answer. We get the best birth information we can get and we set up a chart, trusting it to be more or less accurate. If we have an ongoing relationship with a client, we might start to notice small but systematic errors in the timing of events in that person’s life – things happen a little sooner or a little later than we would have predicted. Perhaps that time of birth needs some adjustment, just like my own.
Soon we will have an honors elective available about the technical process of rectifying a birth time. That will be FCEA 402 – and if you have much Virgo energy, welcome to paradise! It’s a picky process, but it will get you up to Warp speed with your understanding how transits, progressions, and solar arcs actually work faster than any other method I know.
Until then, don’t sweat the place of birth – but keep a suspicious eye on everyone’s time of birth.
Steven Forrest
May 2025







Happy equinox, FCEA community. Here in California, our clocks “spring forward” so now we have more hours of light and longer days. To me, Aries season always says it’s time to spring into action! We see lots of new growth and excitement at the FCEA. Everyone is doing a fine job finishing up their classwork before spring break. We are about to start up our second round of 2025 classes in late March and April. Steven and I want to give a special thank you to cohort 5 for their great contributions to 306-05, The Master Practicum. We were so impressed by the level of insight and skill this group demonstrated in class! Next up, this group will be taking our counseling course, Sacred Counsel. We listened to our students’ requests about this class. We expanded it to two-hour Zoom sessions a week. We are also excited to announce some changes in scheduling to better assist students in different time zones. Let me explain.
This will be part of a weekend event sponsored by Astrology University called “The New Air and Fire Era.” In it, I’ll be offering a webinar about Neptune’s entry into Aries. Here’s my description of the talk:

A few lines ago I mentioned my Fireside Chat with Chip Conley. That will be a Zoom event. In June, I’ll physically be returning to his elegant Modern Elder Academy to teach. The campus is set on four square miles of magical land south of Santa Fe. Last year we had a wonderfully warm and friendly group of about twenty-five people. Some were experienced with astrology and some were not, but they all “got it” quickly. This year, I plan to talk about the current sign changes of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, and how each of us can best work with these fresh new energies at a personal level. For details, here’s the link: 


March 6 marks the 6th birthday of the FCEA (try saying that six times fast!). Congratulations dear school! Near the end of next month, in March, Neptune makes a big shift by moving into Aries and I am wondering, now that we are in Pisces season, what type of vision do we need for our school? As we all know, there is a certain letting go process with the archetypes of Pisces and Neptune. What behaviors need to go now so that we can all take the Neptunian initiative with fiery action in the spirit of Aries? Being a mystic and going to the mountaintop all has its place. But somehow I feel now we need to be ready to act.
I recall Steven’s accurate description of the high road of Mars, ruler of Aries, as “spiritual warrior.” Out-of-bounds Mars by transit is about to station direct February 23 at 17°00’ Cancer on the FCEA’s 3rd house cusp and in opposition to our Saturn at 18°13’ Capricorn on our 9th house cusp. Meanwhile, the FCEA’s progressed Moon in Gemini is just about to cross our school’s ascendant. What feeds our healing voices while we attempt to bring our ideas, methods and wisdom to the collective table? I mean this next statement in a most humble Piscean way, but I think we need to step into our power, our abilities to be leaders among our peers in astrology, to put ourselves first as worthy healers of a choice-centered evolutionary approach. Our voices have a right to “take up space”!


Let me start the year by sharing some thoughts I have about the current dance between the planet Jupiter, in the sign Gemini, and Saturn in Pisces. I’m going to mention just briefly some of my own transits in recent months, then apply my thought processes to the FCEA community and what we hope to accomplish collectively. Most readers are probably familiar with the ongoing square between Jupiter, “King of the Gods,” and Saturn, “the old taskmaster.” Last year, the square was exact August 19th and December 24th, and we will see one final one this coming June 15th in Cancer and Aries respectively (Neptune also enters Aries this spring). Of course, taking into account orbs, the square has been in play off and on for months (orbs are such a tricky factor, as Steven would say, “when does a kitten become a cat?”) And then we see certain triggers enter the astrological picture. I write this article just a day after quick-moving Venus lined up by conjunction with Saturn in Pisces. 

